TSC 2018-06-28

Full IRC Log 

13:55:38 <kennypaul> #startmeeting tsc-2018-06-28
13:55:38 <collabot`> Meeting started Thu Jun 28 13:55:38 2018 UTC.  The chair is kennypaul. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
13:55:38 <collabot`> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
13:55:38 <collabot`> The meeting name has been set to 'tsc_2018_06_28'
13:55:51 <kennypaul> #topic rollcall
13:56:06 <Davide> #info Davide Cherubini, proxy Vodafone
13:56:33 <kennypaul> #chair phrobb SteveT gildaslanilis
13:56:33 <collabot`> Current chairs: SteveT gildaslanilis kennypaul phrobb
13:57:06 <Lingli> #info Lingli, CMCC
13:58:52 <RannyHaiby> #info Ranny Haiby, Nokia
13:58:55 <Xiaojun> #info Xiaojun Xie, China Telecom
13:59:23 <ningso> #info Ning So, Reliance Jio
14:00:44 <Huabing_Zhao_> #info Huabing Zhao Proxy of ZTE
14:00:58 <elynn> #info Ethan Lynn, proxy of Xinhui Li for VMware
14:01:03 <frankbrockners> #info Frank Brockners, Cisco
14:01:10 <EricDebeau> #info Eric Debeau, Orange
14:01:52 <cdonley> #info Chris Donley Huawei
14:02:05 <JasonHunt> #info Jason Hunt, IBM
14:03:08 <kennypaul> #info Alla Goldner, AMDOCS
14:03:40 <kennypaul> #info Murat Tupcu, Turk Telekom
14:04:22 <gilbert> #info mazin gilbert
14:04:45 <SteveT> #info Stephen Terrill, Ericsson
14:14:12 <kennypaul> #topic housekeeping
14:14:42 <kennypaul> #info kennypaul reviewed the slide deck
14:14:58 <kennypaul> #topic Casablanca M1
14:16:12 <kennypaul> #info gildaslanilis reviewed his slide deck
14:17:24 <kennypaul> #info functional req- HPA, change mangement, scaling, 5g/PNF, 5g/Performance. partial commits
14:17:48 <kennypaul> #info slicing no commits
14:18:24 <kennypaul> #info EA/Cloud partial commit from OOF
14:19:35 <kennypaul> #info catherine- usecase owners needed for some of these
14:20:25 <kennypaul> #undo
14:20:25 <collabot`> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.ircmeeting.items.Info object at 0x30e72d0>
14:21:29 <kennypaul> #inof no functional reqiuirement is agreed to end-to-end
14:22:06 <kennypaul> #info no functional reqiuirement is agreed to end-to-end
14:23:34 <kennypaul> #info func req owners need to meet with the PTLs
14:24:19 <kennypaul> #info gildaslanilis - that has already been requested for weeks.
14:25:39 <kennypaul> #info gilbert requests an update at the PTL meeting monday
14:27:03 <kennypaul> #info discussion of operator input
14:29:15 <kennypaul> #info func reqs are broken out into features - hard to tell from the wiki
14:30:11 <kennypaul> #info some fun req features are fully committed across, others are are not
14:33:09 <kennypaul> #info Alex_Vul some company's are willing to staff/fund the efforts. Intel will cover HPA
14:34:33 <kennypaul> #info Alex_Vul, Intel, proxy
14:36:53 <kennypaul> #info Hpa in 2nd phase, change mangement is in 3rd phase
14:39:18 <kennypaul> #iaction- owners are to meet with PTLs
14:39:47 <kennypaul> #action TSC members are to attend the PTL meeting on Monday
14:41:45 <kennypaul> #info S3P - maturity table is filled out by all
14:43:18 <kennypaul> #info JasonHunt requests for assistance from the community to take ownership of specific areas
14:44:03 <kennypaul> #info appc, clamp, dcae not committed to S3P upgrade
14:47:38 <kennypaul> #info link to requirements requested
14:48:02 <phrobb> Not to pile-on regarding tasks to be done during the Casablanca Release cycle, but should the TSC make a formal statement on if there will be any support for the Beijing release and if so, for how long?... I.e. will there be one or more bug-fix release(s) for Beijing?... will there be vulnerability fix/support for Beijing?... or for  Amsterdam any longer?... and if so, for how long?
14:48:44 <kennypaul> #info S3P Arch Alignment cdonley to follow up w/ PTLs
14:49:46 <kennypaul> #info non-func I18N . passed Arch sub review
14:51:55 <kennypaul> #info non func Testing - facing infrastructure issues
14:52:16 <kennypaul> #topic usecases
14:53:20 <kennypaul> #info CCVPN, OSAMPNF - mainly an integration effort rather than code development
14:53:52 <kennypaul> #info Vijay VK cannot commit dcae to this
14:54:38 <kennypaul> #action PTLs to update Casablanca wiki page
14:55:28 <kennypaul> #Agreed M1 milestones to be decided on Monday
14:56:55 <kennypaul> #info discussion of Amsterdam security patched and maintenance releases in general.
14:57:35 <kennypaul> #info from SteveT All: We need to make a statement about the mainatance of Amsterdam (and Beijing) as well; at least from a security pespective. I propose that we do not maintain Amsterdam and any vulnerabilities are fixed in relation to Beijing only.
14:58:41 <kennypaul> #agreed that any Amsterdam issues - answer is to move to Beijing
14:59:27 <kennypaul> #topic community feedback
15:01:37 <kennypaul> #info KennyPaul shared Alla's slides
15:02:52 <kennypaul> #info PTL and TSC members’ tracking
15:04:51 <kennypaul> #info discussion
15:13:39 <kennypaul> #info to be discussed in email and vote to be on next week's agenda
15:17:50 <kennypaul> #info TSC meetings
15:19:19 <kennypaul> #info proposal to short meetings to 1 hour and have a 2nd meeting if needed.
15:24:01 <kennypaul> #action Alla to take conversation to email
15:24:21 <kennypaul> #info Docs on the wiki
15:26:02 <kennypaul> #info discussion of consistency
15:30:04 <kennypaul> #action KennyPaul to send a proposal out on template and directory structure
15:30:35 <kennypaul> #info PTL and Release manager participation in voting
15:33:15 <kennypaul> #info discussion on consistency of process and vetting
15:36:27 <kennypaul> #info TSC needs to assure that PTL & Release Manager input is received before a vote
15:37:05 <kennypaul> #info
15:37:21 <kennypaul> #endmeeting

Zoom Chat Log 

07:00:06 From Alla Goldner : Hi
07:00:14 From Alla Goldner : Kenny, please register me on IRC
07:02:30 From Milind Jalwadi to Kenny Paul (Linux Foundation) (Privately) : Hi Kenny - Please register me (Milind Jalwadi) as Proxy for Tech Mahindra. Sorry not able to access IRC
07:02:38 From Murat Turpcu ( Turk Telekom) to Kenny Paul (Linux Foundation) (Privately) : hi kenny please log me in
07:03:47 From Murat Turpcu ( Turk Telekom) to Kenny Paul (Linux Foundation) (Privately) : thanks
07:20:57 From Kenny Paul (Linux Foundation) : Alla, Milind & Murat logged in IRC
07:26:15 From Kenny Paul (Linux Foundation) : ramki i have muteds you
07:27:45 From Sharon Chisholm (Amdocs) : A 1..N prioritization of the requirements might of helped.
07:36:24 From Scott Blandford (AT&T) : Where do the Functional Requirement Owners send their analysis of the commitments?
07:37:47 From Michael O'Brien : yes, priorities for each hpa subcomponent (for exampe geo redundancy could be a stretch goal)
07:38:31 From Michael O'Brien : monday at the PTL? meet
07:38:40 From Michael O'Brien : yes monday
07:39:13 From Eric Debeau : OK to attend PTL meeting
07:40:08 From Dan Timoney : I think in the future, it might be good to have a milestone prior to M1 for presentation of the prioritized candidate requirements, and to ask each reqt owner to schedule a review with all PTLs between that milestone and M1 to gain commitment
07:40:22 From Alla Goldner : Dan, we had it
07:40:37 From Alla Goldner : we had SP input, and we had milestone for requirements' endorsement
07:40:51 From Alla Goldner : the problem is that we didn't have a full picture of alltogether
07:40:59 From Alla Goldner : functionsl, non-functional, S3P etc.
07:41:04 From Dan Timoney : But that was not a tracked milestone
07:41:18 From Alla Goldner : well, endorsement was a tracked milestone
07:41:35 From Alla Goldner : problem is that it didn't include PTL commitment, which comes later
07:41:38 From Dan Timoney : ok
07:41:42 From Alla Goldner : while PTL didn't have a full picture
07:41:48 From Alla Goldner : and this is what we are facing now
07:42:01 From Alexander Vul : I don't think we have a process that actually lasts for more than a week...
07:42:20 From Alexander Vul : we invent processes on the fly with no regard for the impact they may have...
07:42:43 From Alla Goldner : Alex, if we fully followed the process
07:42:53 From Alla Goldner : with no exceptions and, as you say, by re-inventng it,
07:43:03 From Alla Goldner : we would have pretty much nothing into the release
07:43:17 From Alla Goldner : as almost nothing was there on time
07:43:36 From Alla Goldner : this is why we try to apply some level of flexibility, community is learning
07:44:17 From Kenny Paul (Linux Foundation) : ramki I have muted you
07:44:32 From Alexander Vul : the notion of endorsement was never formally approved by the community...
07:45:02 From Alexander Vul : we need to have a process subcommittee that considered the totality of impact for each process we create and each process change...
07:46:14 From Stephen Terrill : I think alla is right. there is a process described and the time line provided. I assume that if we want to update that can be done, as these can always be improved. However lets not create a process sub-committee.
07:47:03 From Alexander Vul : @Stephen - i just want consistency from release to release...
07:47:26 From Alexander Vul : it would be good to follow the *same* process for approval of new projects two releases in a row...
07:49:22 From Alexander Vul : We also need to consider the big picture... we created the notion of functional requirements because we said we wanted to a general purpose platform.. so we went through hours and days of distilling use cases into generic features that would be needed by the platform...
07:50:00 From Eric Debeau : As discussed in Beijing, Orange can help to maintain Heat
07:50:23 From Alexander Vul : so what now... we have a bunch of half-finished work and in the end the platform is no better off than it was...
07:50:23 From Kenny Paul (Linux Foundation) : all muted again
07:50:59 From Alla Goldner : Alex, I believe all functional requirements not completed in Beijing will move on
07:51:13 From Alla Goldner : it really requires one more round of discussions with PTL, most likely
07:51:17 From Alla Goldner : for them to commit
07:51:46 From Alla Goldner : to me, all new requirements and 2 new use cases (untouched today during the TSC meeting, btw), seem to be more problematic
07:53:32 From Stephen Terrill : All: We need to make a statement about the mainatance of Amsterdam (and Beijing) as well; at least from a security pespective. I propose that we do not maintain Amsterdam and any vulnerabilities are fixed in relation to Beijing only.
07:58:38 From Mazin : Gildas deserves a star for finishing a head of time!
08:08:07 From Chris Donley : suggested vote: If a TSC member is absent from 3 TSC meetings in a 12-month period without designating a proxy, that member shall be removed and the seat will be filled according to the TSC composition method specified in the Charter.
08:08:28 From Alla Goldner : I would say 6 month
08:08:48 From Mazin : Why 6 months when the term for each member is 1 year.
08:08:55 From Alla Goldner : if we go for 12 month - the majrity would be removed
08:08:58 From Jason Hunt : … and we don’t know what the new “TSC composition” is, which makes this unclear
08:09:41 From Lingli : this is something I have not been part of discussion
08:10:07 From Lingli : I am not comfortable voting for this without proper discussion publicly
08:10:14 From Murat Turpcu ( Turk Telekom) : these are not consecutive meetings right
08:10:48 From Lingli : there was something similar but not this one
08:12:09 From Steven Wright [AT&T] : is the issue attendance at meetuings, or participation in votes e.g. email votes ?
08:12:10 From Murat Turpcu ( Turk Telekom) : really can anybody be a proxy? is this healthy.
08:12:26 From Lingli : I dont think so
08:12:37 From Alexander Vul : me neither
08:12:50 From Alla Goldner : that depends on composition
08:12:59 From Alla Goldner : if it is based on individuakls - yes
08:13:19 From Alla Goldner : if based on company's Platinum membership - then company member could ve appointed as a proxy, I guess
08:17:33 From Jason Hunt : Survey asked about # of consecutive meetings that a TSC member can miss before being dropped from the quorum requirement. Consensus on those votes was 2 consecutive meetings. Another question asked if member should also be removed from the TSC if removed from quorum. Answers were split (community said Yes, TSC said No)
08:18:49 From Eric Debeau : I agree with Jason. We only discussed about 2 consecutive meetings
08:19:40 From Alexander Vul : We should be inspired by other orgnaizations that have similar rules about attendence and participation...
08:19:47 From Mazin : Jason/Eric, Can you formulate a language for the community and share in an email for comments.
08:21:34 From Jason Hunt : Alex, do you have some examples?
08:22:20 From Timo Perala (Nokia) : Regarding anybody can be proxy: I believe it is up to TSC member to nominate, it is totally in her discretion. Including affiliation aspect.
08:23:33 From Alexander Vul : @Jason - OASIS/TOSCA has a good attendence policy, so does ETSI/NFV and ETSI/ZSM
08:24:19 From Michael O'Brien (Amdocs, LOG) : Michael drop off to Acumos/AT&T meet in 5 min
08:25:39 From Mazin : If each TSC member input their proxy on the website and if that proxy attends when the TSC member is unavailable then there is really nothing to worry about or debate.
08:26:45 From Timo Perala (Nokia) : @Mazin: agree fully
08:29:43 From Ranny Haiby : It is better to have tagging for easier search than to attempt to enforce strict hierarchy on project workspaces.
08:29:48 From Michael lando (SDC) to Kenny Paul (Linux Foundation) (Privately) : you can use the example we tried in sdc we have a portal to mange it for us
08:30:39 From Ranny Haiby : My experience indicates hierarchy is open for interpertation, so things may not be placed where you expect them to be
08:31:40 From Murat Turpcu ( Turk Telekom) : if we want TSC to function properly may be we should discuss participation to votings instead of attendance
08:32:48 From Roger Maitland : With respect to the wiki, we should be encouraging people to refer to the official documentation where appropriate and not the wiki.
08:32:54 From Eric Debeau : PTL should provide guidance. But, the vote should be under TSC.
08:33:39 From Stephen Terrill : i need to drop
08:33:44 From Eric Debeau : +2 with Roger on documentation. Still a lot to do !
08:35:27 From Kenny Paul (Linux Foundation) : @Roger +1, but believe that “documents” in this context should not include info that shopuld in in RTD.
08:35:29 From Steven Wright [AT&T] : +2 roger
08:36:29 From Ramki Krishnan : Another common wiki challenge is searching for material. We need to have consistent naming for the parent and child pages.

Zoom Attendance Log 

Action items