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Zoom Chat Log

 07:00:03 From Dong Wang (China Telecom) to Everyone : #info Dong Wang, China Telecom
07:00:07 From Chaker Al-Hakim to Everyone : #info Chaker Al-Hakim for Seshu, Huawei
07:00:22 From Amy Zwarico to Everyone : #info proxy Amy Zwarico, AT&T (proxy for Catherine)
07:00:23 From Andreas GEISSLER (DT) to Everyone : #info Andreas Geissler, DT
07:00:46 From Ranny HAIBY (Samsung) to Everyone : #info Ranny Haiby, Samsung
07:00:58 From Eric Debeau to Everyone : #info Eric Debeau, Orange
07:01:15 From Yuanhong Deng to Everyone : # info proxy Yuanhong Deng, China Mobile
07:01:21 From Srini Addepalli (Intel) to Everyone : #info Srini Addepalli, Intel
07:01:29 From Martin Vezeau (Bell Canada) to Everyone : Martin Vezeau, Bell Canada
07:02:30 From Martin Vezeau (Bell Canada) to Everyone : #info Martin Vezeau, Bell Canada
07:02:39 From Jason Hunt to Everyone : #info Jason Hunt, IBM
07:02:46 From Damian Nowak to Everyone : #info proxy Damian Nowak, Nokia
07:02:49 From Ciaran Johnston (Ericsson) to Everyone : #info Ciaran Johnston, Ericsson
07:08:51 From Alla Goldner to Everyone : #info Alla Goldner, Amdocs
07:08:53 From Amy Zwarico to Everyone : Eric, can you attend one of our upcoming SECCOM calls. We meet on Tuesdays
07:09:01 From Eric Debeau to Everyone : OK
07:18:43 From Damian Nowak (Nokia) to Everyone : +1 to what Amy said, very true
07:23:20 From Damian Nowak (Nokia) to Everyone : no pb
07:42:40 From Kenny PAUL (LFN) to Everyone : https://linuxfoundation.surveymonkey.com/r/NKRF92Y

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 07:04:58 on the docket today.
07:05:05 Want to say welcome to Martin, who is backfilling Olivier for Bell Canada.
07:05:15 At least up to the point where we do the elections.
07:05:19 So, welcome to your first meeting as TASC member.
07:05:39 Give
07:05:31 David's posted the weekly update.
07:05:36 Now some conversation here on integration will touch on railings if there's anything there.
07:05:46 Basic updates for the PCL stuff.
07:05:49 Talk about the lab subcommittee if there's any updates there are two dues it's fairly light agenda today,
07:05:58 anything anyone else wants to add Catherine cannot be here today.
07:06:03 Her folks have been impacted by the flooding, that's taking place so our thoughts go out to her on her family.
07:06:17 Anything else to add.
07:06:22 Okay.
07:06:24 David any quick thoughts, other than what you posted.
07:06:29 What you mailed out.
07:06:31 Nope.
07:06:37 Okay so, talking about integration, have something here for acceptance criteria.
07:06:47 This is the material that Catherine reviewed.
07:06:52 I think it was at the PTO meeting on Monday,
07:06:57 and just kind of a summary of where we landed with that, that discussion.
07:07:08 So, Eric. Are you on the call.
07:07:16 Yeah.
07:07:16 Yeah, so, so there's.
07:07:19 So, we reviewed the, The dashboard the integration dashboard and as you'll recall.
07:07:26 I don't have a link to it right off the top my head but there is a one of the buckets is for security.
07:07:37 And so we need to have some criteria. In other words, if you'll recall it displays a percentage.
07:07:47 You know, and very often it's not 100%. So, what is an acceptable.
07:07:54 percentage for security So Eric has taken an action to work with CENTCOM to define that you want to say any more about that Eric.
07:08:10 Not yet because just we just, I just accepted that this week so yes we need to walk with a con to define these criteria to be accepted by the press release or yes I will rock second for that.
07:08:24 Okay.
07:08:29 See me we need to maybe to, to share with Jesse.
07:08:33 I don't know when
07:08:37 to avoid any surprise for the, for the, for the picture, so maybe. Do you have any timeline to do. I actually, I asked that question actually at the PDL meeting in, you know, Kathryn laid out the plan.
07:08:57 And she basically said as soon as possible.
07:09:01 Let's see I see a note here from Amy. Amy do you want to go ahead and speak up.
07:09:08 Sure, Eric. What about joining one of our upcoming sitcom calls we meet Tuesdays.
07:09:14 That way we can have a discussion with insect calm and decide what to do and come up with a plan.
07:09:22 Yeah, okay. Yeah. Okay.
07:09:28 Great.
07:09:31 And then similarly there's another bucket on that dashboard for stability and resiliency and Catherine is working with Andreas on a proposal that they will bring to the TASC when that's that's available and imagine it'll be similar in other words what,
07:09:56 you know, based on percentage passing or, or, you know, specific must pass tests, etc.
07:10:04 So we'll, we'll see that from Kathryn and Andreas when that's ready.
07:10:11 I know Catherine stuff here Andreas Are you on do you want to say any more about that. Yeah, the moment we just have discussed this in the, in the, in the integration team meeting as well as, let's say, bilateral between Catherine and myself and I wanted
07:10:28 to also let's say have my DT lab installations and testing also running to compare this to the, to the, to the, let's say orange dailies and, and then we'll have a little bit to investigate so what are really, let's say the critical part so that we have
07:10:50 a good measurements where we said okay this is an acceptable version or an acceptable level, where we can, let's say, Give a goal for the,
07:11:04 for the, for the release basically. Yeah.
07:11:10 Yeah. All right. Thank you.
07:11:13 All right.
07:11:16 Any questions from the TASC about how we're moving forward to define the acceptance criteria on the dashboard.
07:11:29 All right, Kenny if you want to open up that link for the symbol integration blocking points.
07:11:39 Alright.
07:11:42 Integration team do you want to highlight any of these issues or bring any of these specific issues to the attention of the gic.
07:11:59 All right.
07:12:01 I do see we got Go ahead.
07:12:12 Let's say failing issues regarding this macro mode and sensation I think they are as you see on on the so level handled at the moment.
07:12:24 There are two things I guess which are at the moment where we just split it, this is about this PNF reg is traded PNF micro pod so both have been split it, I think, on the bottom you see that, and it will be still.
07:12:41 Let's say split it because they are the one is handled by the
07:12:47 Mako insincere over by the Python SDK, the other one is by the robot scripts. So, and it will be checked with the, with the so team.
07:13:00 So what you see at the bottom so these two ones are for the so there is still man sometimes in issue with of health checks, that's what you see here. We are also as I said I have to compare this what is the issue if it's because I have seen that also
07:13:20 my lap. Sometimes, so it has to be checked and we will continue to discuss this. And as I said so and we will have to investigate on the other ones. So we gone through that and we will continue that in the next weeks and see what are critical ones and
07:13:38 follow this up there.
07:13:42 Okay, great.
07:13:44 Thank you.
07:13:47 Alright, any questions regarding the symbol integration, blocking issues, or any other
07:14:01 release related issues.
07:14:08 All right, Kenny, I think that's it for me.
07:14:16 Hey.
07:14:21 yc that you checked in. Thank you.
07:14:20 Okay, I don't know that we have anyone from rail inch on the call today.
07:14:30 Anyone so we will
07:14:35 go past that unless anyone has anything specific to bring up at the moment.
07:14:57 Okay.
07:14:50 So, once they thank Shankar.
07:14:54 who is going to be leaving our communities done a great job on a number of things for us he's going to be missed.
07:15:04 Want to say thanks to David McSweeney who's new Commissioner on Dame de map.
07:15:11 And with regards to the SR discussion that we had past couple weeks, wanted to check and see if there had been any discussion at the architecture meetings, or if there been any threads regarding that for
07:15:40 requirements subcommittee, or if it had been discussed at the API call.
07:15:54 Well it wasn't discussed today Amy I call it might have been on the, on the call he sent me an email about ESR.
07:16:09 It's I'm still, you know, kind of confused on who's taking that over though.
07:16:32 Hey, sorry this is a shocker I yeah I wasn't paying too much attention but I think I heard the yes or.
07:16:41 Yeah.
07:16:40 Okay, so I have some updates for you guys.
07:16:45 Excuse me, and David This is the action item that I took from last week or week before, I believe.
07:16:53 We had a lengthy discussion on ASR yesterday at the architecture subcommittee meeting day before, on Tuesday.
07:17:03 So, so here's the here's what's going on. I went back and looked at my email, and then there was an email that was sent by robbing. And then, I believe, Bill, a real reply to it back in June, 2020, which is a year ago.
07:17:24 So, that mail went unanswered or at least I don't have any replies back on my in my inbox for almost a year or maybe nine months before the ASR issue has come up again.
07:17:42 So in the email.
07:17:46 Bill indicated that he is are the AMA it is not going to support ESRI
07:17:57 moving forward in Wapping indicated that the he believes that the ASR is stable, and there are no requirements, new requirements that were requested for future release and future release is relative to the 2020 June 20.
07:18:14 Right.
07:18:15 So what's interesting to me.
07:18:17 I'd like to interrupt for a second.
07:18:20 There are no new feature requirements. There are global requirement, there are global security requirements that ASR has to meet.
07:18:30 Yeah, I really don't care about that at this point. Well, I do.
07:18:34 Yeah, what I mean you do. And I don't mean to be rude but I'm just giving you the give you a summary of where we are right because I'm not a sock person, yeah I'm not the si eso person so if you have any, any requirements we got an Asr, then they should
07:18:51 be discussed somewhere else.
07:18:52 So I took the action item to look into it to see where, How did we get to where we are today.
07:19:01 The.
07:19:03 So we go for a year without raising any issues and then all of a sudden, he is or becomes an issue. So ASR has two components. The ASR gooey in the is ASR server.
07:19:17 Some groups, found a way to use the existing API's to either bypass the server or by basically bypass the goal so they could register their them infrastructure or wherever they need to register with a an AI, right.
07:19:33 So, at this point in time.
07:19:36 And I just, I just want to close out the action item that I have, at this point in time, ASR is not supported.
07:19:45 The intention of not supporting the ASR was raised a year ago.
07:19:53 Any were there are ways to use the I saw today, as is.
07:19:57 If the Guru is not supported. Somebody can choose to use the, the existing APIs directly. Now if there are new requirements back to Amy's point where.
07:20:09 Yeah, there are new security requirements that need to be implemented. Then I believe the KFC has to decide as to how they should be implemented in by home.
07:20:21 Right. So, the action item that I took is to look into the history of as or how we got to where we are in the state of ASR as it exists today not to handle how ASR should be supported moving forward.
07:20:38 So, I just want to close out the issue. And I apologize I somebody mentioned something about a saw before it was not Kenny, or, or David some someone else.
07:20:51 So, the this is the state of vs or if the DNC has to decide how we want to move forward with it, whether we want to archive it, or whether whether we want to maintain the existing state.
07:21:03 And if there are any new or additional requirements that need to be implemented then the KFC would have to agree how we want to move forward with it.
07:21:14 Sugar and and TASC, I'd like to point out that the security requirements to fix vulnerabilities are not new.
07:21:21 We had a little bit of a change of the way the TASC and the project in general runs things so we kind of had a break. While we transitioned from the per release requirements to global requirements, but the requirement to fix vulnerabilities has been on
07:21:36 the table, since probably either Beijing or Casa Blanca, so they're not new requirements.
07:21:46 I agree, they're not features shocker.
07:21:50 Yeah, they would like to support with me saying, I mean, essentially what it boils down to is that we have a system, right, we might have components of that system that are vulnerable.
07:22:02 Right. And then, even if there is hovers component and only one is vulnerable. Then this one component opens up the access to a potential articles on the entire system.
07:22:13 So, that is not DSR, right, that is not maintained by means of security. Then we have a huge security hole, and even it's not maintain then probably should not be installed as part of any on up, supported installation let's call it the prophets right
07:22:36 those electrons that we have with requirements. And this is what they think about it right i mean it's simply a secular is a security hole, right, which can be used to better the entire system. Right.
07:22:46 Simple as that.
07:22:48 So I we did find out.
07:22:52 Excuse me. Sorry.
07:22:53 We did find out that the team that was supporting it is basically no longer with the company.
07:23:06 So, yeah, but I think the I think the most was talking before I think the point was, is, is one taken right now is Damon, Damon sorry Damon.
07:23:18 So I think the point is well taken.
07:23:21 However, the point.
07:23:24 This is going to apply to quite a few systems that either have been quite Yes, or have been archived in which, whatever way, whichever way you want to call them, describe them.
07:23:38 And then they need some work to address some security vulnerabilities.
07:23:46 And I think the DSC should decide how to move forward with these systems so that we have some guidelines in terms of how we should address this issue or these issues.
07:23:59 In the future, because otherwise, then we were in the same situation over and over again.
07:24:05 Yes, this is what they get support this word we get exactly the same discussion a year ago, you've had to remember is that is that you know you will discuss about it again.
07:24:16 Exactly. And I went back to my notes and sure enough right i mean it has been discussed and it just, it was resurrected.
07:24:25 Recently, so one way would be the request or the requesters that need yes are then they need to step up and, you know, see if they could find resources to support the new requirements.
07:24:41 I don't know what the right answer is right I'm just coming up with a making up stuff right now right but, you know, we need to come up with makeup stuff and see which which options are valid enough so we could go off and address them.
07:24:57 But they mean I do agree with you right if there is a security vulnerability that we know that the security team believes strongly believes that it is going to compromise the system, then that specific component should be excluded from Om.
07:25:16 So it doesn't come up at all.
07:25:18 Yeah.
07:25:18 Yep. I think we have an agreement here that is that is that is ok that is fine.
07:25:24 What I could propose on the specific actions taking that forward. Right. I mean, as the instructor said we discussed about a year ago. Right. So I think we need to be able to be like, let me call it stronger because I do not have a better word to tell
07:25:38 it.
07:25:40 And we should probably define a deadline, a specific deadline. If someone doesn't come up to the deadline, then we archive this product that will not install it, it might be in the repositories right but it should not be a part of any active installed
07:25:55 on our system.
07:25:57 And my proposal for this deadline would be no summer holidays I mean, end of August, right, we have this development threes code freeze 26th of August, right.
07:26:09 So maybe it would be even a little bit earlier but okay let it be end of August, and if no one comes up to the end of August and then we make a decision.
07:26:17 And then we make a vote probably right. But we try to make a decision to to archive this.
07:26:39 Because otherwise, in a year we come back to this discussion again.
07:26:35 Okay, my three cents set
07:26:40 mine too.
07:26:41 Yeah, Damien and chocolate I think that's a good, really good approach going forward for this release.
07:26:47 But we need to not kick the can down past past this release that we can allow it in, but then we need to make the hard decision.
07:27:08 No one if by the end of the summer no one is going to support Asr, and and can and
07:27:07 meet the requirement the requirements that have been in place forever which is to maintain a project and maintain doesn't just mean to add new features, then I think we have to make the decision to remove it because quite frankly, it's very unclear whether
07:27:22 a vulnerability, how, how serious a vulnerability is going to be. You make guesses. So, the decision that we've made in terms of security on own app is get rid of the vulnerabilities in your code.
07:27:37 And that's not happening any longer on Asr, so if it's not happening it needs to not be part of the release, and it needs to be removed from the release.
07:27:49 But, but that has implications that the projects with dependencies are going to have to come up with a different way of implementing the functionality that ESRI is providing today, or we have to find somebody who's willing to to support these but.
07:28:04 And I think that there has been.
07:28:06 There's been talk about what Python SDK can be used to provide the functionality that the ASR containers are providing, am I correct on that.
07:28:27 That's what
07:28:20 it was mine suggests so to, Maybe if one of the sub.
07:28:28 I mean, the question was, that some, some use case holders said that they would like to use it or need that.
07:28:37 And my proposal was to, let's say, extend the Python SDK. Support for.
07:28:47 I mean we have at the moment that the VM support for years are all replacing the VM but we could also I think it would be easy to integrate as well. The, the VNF manager support or.
07:29:01 I think there was three kinds of supports which they would have in one we have implemented in essence, in the Python SDK we could extend this if really someone is shouting protest because it's, it's just, let's say
07:29:19 an issue. And then it could be created or kill someone if they use case would use need that in the use case, implementation, they can, they could use that a script which is then using Python so that would be great, because my, my hypothesis is that we're
07:29:40 not going to find somebody to support us off the two as our containers. So I think that we need to we need to have the plan. So, what the strategic plan is going to be, which is I think they have to retire, out of the release, no one is maintaining them.
07:29:56 Yep, yep, if maybe to what what's being type now.
07:30:07 Maybe we should actually call it potential of extending enhancing quite an SDK right it's not using. Yeah, we need to extend and then we can you hear me okay.
07:30:11 Yeah. Beautiful.
07:30:14 And so the benefit of that Damien, and Andreas, is that if we state that up front, then we can now find resource, we can have somebody step up for with to enhance the Python SDK and extend that for the Jakarta release, so that we have a path forward because
07:30:33 otherwise, this is going to still crop up.
07:30:36 When we get ready. After Jakarta and it's and it's going to keep. So we just, I think we have to make the decision.
07:30:43 No one's stepped up to Asr, no one's, no one's asked Kenny to unlock the repos and and make them write about their, their readable and Kenny, you did that a while ago, didn't you.
07:30:55 Yes, they've been locked for over a year.
07:30:57 So, no one's going, no one plans on fixing this, I think we just have to decide, it's not being fixed what's the path forward and and come up with a plan, I, and I support leaving the ASR in there till we have a plan a firm plan.
07:31:13 We have commitment to do the Python SDK to extend the Python SDK and the projects can all the projects that have the dependencies, can, can adopt the, the new the new way of doing things.
07:31:30 You know I don't want to break it.
07:31:32 I really don't want to break these cases, but we just, I don't think we keep looking for somebody for Asr,
07:31:40 so I can, I would speak with me file, who is the main contributor to Python SDK is from the tea.
07:31:52 And
07:31:52 I will, I will discuss with him.
07:31:54 Thank you undress.
07:31:57 What was interesting though is how many projects are actually using Asr, even either with the, all the new functionalities or a partial functionalities.
07:32:14 So, it would be interesting to to send a poll out to the community to see, to, to find out the actual number but at least on the call on Tuesday the architecture subcommittee call.
07:32:29 There were at least 234 or five projects that, that basically announced or they shared with us that they do use a CSR to some capacity.
07:32:52 You will have to be aware there are two things, which might confuse the people. There is an ESR so extended system registry entry in a an AI which is independent from the SR gooey and as our server implementation.
07:33:05 Yeah, of course, the people as the projects are using these data entries in the ESRI it's part of the cloud region. Yeah.
07:33:17 At the front end is just so that is our server and gooey is just, let's say, filling this having a nice movie for that, and having a post action.
07:33:30 When they have filled that So on one hand the registry to the multi cloud or obviously some, whatever, triggering in the in this SDN see. So you have to be of course, many components might use definitely or will use the ESRI information within the ANSI
07:33:52 model and AI data. Yeah, but the question is, how many people how many use cases are really, or use code owners are really using the user interface. Yeah,
07:34:06 so that you have to be of course a little bit, it's a little bit tricky to distinguish though whether whether they are really using the user interface for adding a component or if they are just using ANSI entries and maybe giving them a basically an API
07:34:25 call to MSP.
07:34:45 Sorry MSP multi cloud or or SDN see yeah so my post and, you know, they might be confused if he if he dropped out. He is our that they might also lose them the the data entry in the DNA and this is not the case yeah so if we get rid of ASR component.
07:34:58 The still the ANSI data entry is existing and will not be removed. Yeah.
07:34:57 No, yeah i think i think the team we have some people on the call that that I was somewhat familiar with Asr, and that we did discuss using the native API's directly, and some of the applications or some of the components do use it.
07:35:15 I think the comment and I'm looking at my comments, as we speak. I think one concern was that if you update AI directly then that is missing trigger that would trigger would be lost and so on so forth right so the trigger will be last year.
07:35:33 Yeah. And that can be replaced, or can be automated within as I said the Python SDK so it will add the edge entry and has a function for triggering then without any big, let's say you don't use the postman or whatever, then for that yeah that's that's
07:35:50 correct the triggering is missing, then you have to just add Dennis.
07:35:55 That's correct. So, just to conclude on this discussion can in, and David, I would be glad to.
07:36:02 To keep the discussion going and the architecture subcommittee meeting.
07:36:06 Andreas and Damien had a lot of good comments and Amy, I could certainly put it on the agenda for next week and have a discussion.
07:36:16 One more discussion in terms of alternatives I can have an issue doing that and come up with the recommendations in terms of how the native API's or the low level API's can be used directly as an alternative.
07:36:31 Yeah, I could certainly do that.
07:36:32 But I think there's a bigger question in terms of how do we move forward with Asr,
07:36:41 with or without any support.
07:36:53 Okay makes sense. So I will, you know if everybody's okay with it, then I'll.
07:36:58 I will dedicate 45 minutes for this discussion, I will.
07:37:02 I'll invite you Andreas and Damon to the call any as well. And let's have a discussion next week and if we want to come up with the recommendations and as the TLC to review them and and
07:37:21 recommend recommend them then that's fine too. But, you know, I think, you know, this requires probably one more discussion and then we'll come up with recommendations.
07:37:33 Okay, so it makes sense for everyone. Okay.
07:37:36 All right, I'll do that
07:37:39 for next week.
07:37:41 Thank you.
07:37:42 Okay.
07:37:50 Okay, I'm talking about subcommittees
07:37:58 send a mail out, asking about trying to get the lab subcommittee.
07:38:09 Where you going here I sent that out.
07:38:12 On the seventh.
07:38:16 And just want to do. I know we've had a few people have joined.
07:38:26 Recently,
07:38:27 but would like to see more participation.
07:38:33 There I will be sending out doodle poll to try and get a time for a meeting regarding that I realized that that during the summer, this is probably going to be
07:38:49 a bit difficult.
07:38:53 However, that's the plan.
07:38:57 I think that there's as talked about.
07:39:07 Up here there's a lot of work being done. And in terms of trying to coordinate that
07:39:12 this would be a good thing, or if there's a belief that there really shouldn't be a subcommittee, we can always just close that out.
07:39:27 box.
07:39:33 Ok, I will continue forward.
07:39:36 The way I was heading, and we will do that.
07:39:50 Any updates tech SBC Mac UAG governing board meeting is next Wednesday.
07:39:59 Next enterprise meeting is also next Wednesday.
07:40:16 that call, forgetting that it is going to overlap with the.
07:40:25 It's going to overlap with the governing board meeting, which I will be running.
07:40:32 So looking for a volunteer to get that to make sure that the the bridge and set up there
07:40:47 is no one on this call I'll send out mail to the enterprise list.
07:41:03 Okay.
07:41:00 That is an AI.
07:41:21 That is
07:41:25 holiday for Catherine so she won't be there.
07:41:40 Upcoming stuffs awards is still on my plate
07:41:49 discussion of the action items from that. This is something that keeps coming up, but we really haven't spent much time talking about.
07:42:00 And yes, this is still
07:42:06 ongoing will add a third frowny face to that.
07:42:16 The platform as a service survey.
07:42:22 That is a joint effort between
07:42:26 an anchor and new kit and Xg fella that closes today, I will drop the link into the chat window.
07:42:40 Should anyone want to take part in that survey.
07:42:45 When someone's coming up in October, this will be a face to face event.
07:42:50 Hybrid so there will be a remote participation model their details to be worked out.
07:43:00 There's no more, there's not another ETFs scheduled for the remainder of the year.
07:43:06 We'll have a virtual one in January and then we are planning.
07:43:11 In June to have our first face to face, and virtual,
07:43:20 which basically we always do anyway so
07:43:27 now that's really not a change there but that'll be in June.
07:43:32 Last week we talked about the YouTube channel and you can contact you. Randy for more info.
07:43:38 I've added the link there in case folks are interested.
07:43:46 Anything else for today's call.
07:43:56 Okay, I will go ahead and close it out,