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Attendance is taken purely upon #info in Zoom Chat 

Action Items

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Zoom Chat Log 

05:56:00 From Kenny PAUL (LFN) : #topic rollcall
05:56:44 From SaiSeshu MUDIGANTI (Huawei) : #info Seshu, huawei
05:57:58 From Catherine Lefèvre (ONAP) : #info Catherine Lefevre ATT
05:58:39 From Fernando (Fred) Oliveira : #info Fred Oliveira, Verizon
05:59:19 From Ranny HAIBY (Samsung) : #info Ranny Haiby, Samsung
06:00:03 From Ciaran Johnston (Ericsson) : #info Ciaran Johnston, Ericsson
06:00:11 From Andreas GEISSLER (DT) : #info Andreas Geissler, DT
06:00:57 From Dong Wang (China Telecom) : #info Dong Wang, China Telecom
06:01:51 From bin.yang@windriver.com : #info Bin Yang, Wind River
06:01:56 From Srini Addepalli (Intel) : #info Srini Addepalli, Intel
06:01:59 From Jason Hunt : #info Jason Hunt, IBM
06:02:35 From Timo Perala (Nokia) : #info Timo Perala, Nokia
06:03:19 From Alla Goldner : #info Alla Goldner, Amdocs
06:03:36 From Olivier Phenix (Bell Canada) : #info Olivier Phénix, Bell Canada
06:06:33 From Eric Debeau : #info Eric Debeau, Orange
06:29:33 From Ciaran Johnston (Ericsson) : https://github.com/open-ness/EMCO
06:36:28 From Sylvain Desbureaux (Orange) : That’s the one I was looking for
06:36:38 From Sylvain Desbureaux (Orange) : So clearly it’s intel only code
06:36:48 From Sylvain Desbureaux (Orange) : As all code is done in internal intel git repo
06:36:54 From Sylvain Desbureaux (Orange) : With some push every 3 monthes
06:38:09 From Jason Hunt (IBM) : If it hasn’t been done yet, I’d like to see the Architecture Subcommittee weigh in on the fit of EMCO from an architecture perspective. Otherwise I agree with the concerns on governance and embedding anything in ONAP that isn’t governed openly.
06:38:39 From Ciaran Johnston (Ericsson) : I think it looks very interesting conceptually, but I would be concerned at the lack of transparency in the development, and the understanding of the specific use cases in the next couple of releases it would help to address
07:02:40 From Heather Kirksey : If we're looking at analogies, MongoDB, for example, has relatively murky governance for public contributions to the core database, and we seem ok w/ that. But, it's also "merely" a database and something we're used to consuming as a relatively generic component, and I think the issue here is that this project feels more tied in potentially to ONAP's core sense of capabilities than a database. Does that seem accurate?
07:04:41 From Timo Perala (Nokia) : @Heather, this may be true. Also, EMCO seems to be early in its life, MongoDB maybe not so anymore.
07:06:01 From Bob Monkman : I am sorry to have been delayed in joining. I will circle back with Srini and discuss internally how we can support the ONAP community. Let's keep the conversation going and explore the best options for all.
07:06:46 From Heather Kirksey : That's fair, @Timo.
07:06:48 From Heather Kirksey : Thanks @Bob!
07:20:23 From Timo Perala (Nokia) : +1 @Olivier
07:20:47 From Catherine Lefèvre (ONAP) : Thank you Bob
07:27:33 From SaiSeshu MUDIGANTI (Huawei) : +2 on RannY
07:29:56 From Jason Hunt (IBM) : I must apologize. I have another meeting now. Can we continue this on the next TSC call?
07:32:04 From Srini Addepalli (Intel) : I need to drop now.
07:34:06 From Kenny PAUL (LFN) : #AGREED continue TSC 2.0 discussion to next week - move all other topic other than the actual M3 vote on Honolulu

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06:04:35 So couple things on the agenda.
06:04:38 We're going to have an update on em co I know that there were a couple of people that do not normally attend this meeting that we're going to join.
06:04:47 So I did bump that to the front of the agenda.
06:04:53 I see stories on but I know that Heather was also going to join.
06:05:00 Or try and join and Bob McMahon had mentioned that he was also going to try and join the call.
06:05:06 Olivier Thank you.
06:05:09 I do not see them on the call.
06:05:12 So maybe yc Sweeney on the call obviously because he logged in.
06:05:21 3d, do you want to Catherine, do you want to go ahead and start with this.
06:05:28 Yeah, I can do let me know, anytime.
06:05:33 Okay. Yeah, let me
06:05:37 know I was just Replying to Your question if he needs okay yes we can kick off the call with them.
06:05:43 Because I believe, after that we will mainly focus on the main purpose of the agenda which is the CFC to double.
06:05:55 Okay sorry let me give you your permissions
06:06:03 scrolled off my screen.
06:06:08 There you are.
06:06:14 Yeah, I got it, I got the permissions
06:06:23 me know when you see the screen we can see it. Okay, great Thanksgiving.
06:06:31 So this is about my own app and mq integration. So we had a discussion with the next Foundation, have that in Bandon Kenny on Friday.
06:06:44 I have that in Bandon Kenny on Friday. So they, they're okay with this presentation so I request you know DSC guidance on how to take it forward.
06:06:56 So let me give him some background first and then, then I will talk about why why we want to discuss it, discuss this aspect today.
06:07:09 So, when our past, we know, up to Dublin release is predominantly can have listed as design time but then as we all know. It exposes excellent API's, and the time.
06:07:23 You know what it used to do, is that it.
06:07:33 It has the ability to place workloads on OpenStack based sites. That's what it was before. Tapping on the night before then.
06:07:39 During that time, 2019 or so, it was felt that,
06:07:45 you know, there's an, you know, the industry is moving towards distributed computing with a lot of edge computing, and then uncensored just been a resource constrained.
06:08:04 And since it just also would like to kind of support, all kinds of workloads, whether it is VM based container based server less workload based. So at the time, it was felt that coconut is is that I have a state or local orchestrator to take care of all
06:08:17 kinds of workflows.
06:08:21 of workloads. So keeping that in mind that there was also understanding that it is not only would be used to deploy canabal workloads but also CNS could be used.
06:08:35 Now, for a private five GSD van, or security network functions.
06:08:41 And even as we all know now.
06:08:46 They also industry starting to use them for deploying beta and workloads and distributed up of workloads. So the point is that Cobras is becoming popular.
06:09:00 You know the choice of orchestrator in ho cases. So with that, you know, Intel and a few of us in own app. He thought that the we should have support for, you know, deploying workloads from one app on Kubernetes space to get two locations, clusters.
06:09:14 And that's what we have done, you know, as a community,
06:09:20 you know, deploying workloads on Cobra discuss this also.
06:09:24 In addition to open stack.
06:09:27 As it is, as it was that before.
06:09:33 Initially we started as a multi cloud caters plugin.
06:09:38 Essentially we thought that we use everything, Nevada passes.
06:09:43 And in the multi cloud provide a separate plugin to deploy workloads in Kubernetes best customers, and guess what was done during started started it during the, I think we finished that in part of transport release.
06:10:03 And then we also got a time from Intel perspective, and also in the community.
06:10:17 There was a lot of
06:10:14 keeping private 5g and gifts competing in mind.
06:10:17 There was a request that in a Greenfield environments. There is only open space systems rhs. Can we basically make it as a, you know, simple and lean and simple.
06:10:31 And that's when we basically had a profile called port applicators.
06:10:49 Essentially, it was, it was submitted locators liking plus, plus something to make this independent of independent remodeler fiscally and independent of stuff. For now, from a design perspective on content perspective.
06:10:52 And then the net the time was something going up community said that if it doesn't include some components like STC or Sony and I, We should not be using Tom own app.
06:11:06 So, yeah, when we stopped using the term but but a little bit of damage was going, I guess.
06:11:11 But we stopped using the term. And then we wanted to kind new town, and at the same time.
06:11:19 At the same time, you know, there was a as I mentioned, there was no, no, no interest from the Warner community to have anything that is a standalone.
06:11:33 And then at the same time, you know, Intel internally, it was meditation that you know, we need to have this standalone version of multi cluster orchestration as part of our ej ej initiative called openness, it's also open source, but it's called openness,
06:11:51 is that is a brand name from Intel for it initiatives. And that's where we basically kind of
06:12:01 look at forward, have a new version of mq which we call them book you know we also quite as open as simple.
06:12:07 The main purpose is that it has to be small and then take advantage of the distinct, at the time, whatever cloud native tooling that is available for non functional requirements.
06:12:20 And also, cloud native services shouldn't story. So essentially how em Co.
06:12:26 Just doing its functionality that multi customer acquisition functionality and depend on the cloud native tooling for everything else.
06:12:35 That was the, that was the main reason I guess so. That's how we may likely, leaving.
06:12:43 So that's the journey.
06:12:45 Now, yeah this is a kind of giving an understanding of what what was there in the assets.
06:12:54 Essentially, it is a caters plugin service within multi cloud. It exposes set of API's.
06:13:00 You know, for an audit for resisting the clusters that is remote clusters and onboarding applications, which was integrated with SBC and onboarding profile, which was integrated with the CDs, thanks to the service integration was come by in total costs
06:13:16 and other people.
06:13:17 and then instantiated terminate.
06:13:21 You know from from so to multi cloud.
06:13:24 So this is what this was the kind of a high level architecture of, you know, multi cloud support customer support in honor of six.
06:13:37 Then, from from openness Simcoe perspective we started to add more and more functionality.
06:13:43 For example, as I mentioned, you know we are using, you know, cloud native tooling for non functional requirements like security and scalability, you know, resiliency, all that stuff, or not we we used to.
06:14:11 And Kubernetes functionalities.
06:14:02 And the flu and Dave are logging parameters for metrics and geographer tracing so that was one on one work item which brigade and then we start to open up some more things I've done as shown in this.
06:14:29 You know, our inbox this year.
06:14:23 Under status API, due to configuration Lifecycle Management API sand and query mode.
06:14:28 Okay, so we thought background.
06:14:31 So whenever we hear.
06:14:47 When these are open as simple as I mentioned that elephant is happening outside of our community.
06:14:42 I open a simple has now some new API's and almost a new implementation to address distributed computing. Across Ages, with respect to placements and customization kind of things.
06:14:56 And, and openness employees adding features leader to, you know, automation of connectivity.
06:15:03 Essentially when you deploy public applications, or C and apps across multiple locations, and these applications will always have some kind of a, you know, you know, Ingress gateways rigorous gateways or firewalls, not devices or not CNS.
06:15:20 So, the, you know, if to micro services in a victim to, it just say to communicate with each other, there isn't some kind of automation need to be done by creating.
06:15:32 You know firewall to snack rules or Ingress rules in which to unwind Ingress proxy in SF etc.
06:15:39 So, and that's expected to be done.
06:15:43 Only when you deploy the application. So once again this is terminated.
06:15:47 The intention is the requirement is to, you know, remove the configuration also from those, You know,
06:15:57 functions.
06:15:58 So that automation is also one of the main thing that is being done in the info.
06:16:02 and then increase audience, also adding features related network slicing, we don't implement networks I see him calling them quick self, but there are some requirements coming out of network slicing, especially with respect to security and performance
06:16:15 isolation underrated automation so that's also being taken care of. Now, info.
06:16:20 So, some some some community members extension one or two cars and people, expressed interest to liberate new version of em Co.
06:16:32 in one app. So in what up what we have is kind of me one. But this is the best route API's and you know implementation or two.
06:16:49 So that was, that was the reason we started this conversation again. So, what one one request that came out is that whether Intel can help you know creating Helm charts aspirational standards standards to, to, to,
06:17:05 you know to to fix the tempo images from Docker Hub.
06:17:11 As part of them will app installation.
06:17:13 So that work was done, but there were some concerns raised on whether it is right approach for now. So that was the reason why we have, we are here today.
06:17:27 So keeping, you know, we have my limitation is that fundamental perspective.
06:17:47 Intel management would work is openness and coin bone up in openness to repositories. That's something which I cannot.
06:17:42 I don't have any saying that.
06:17:45 So keeping that in mind. So, we basically thought that the what are the possibilities of what would happen in cointegration.
06:17:54 So, one is that you know treat them like any external component, like Maria DB Mongo DB.
06:18:00 That is that they encode up images from the top of how using one of him shots.
06:18:04 That's what I actually taught taught from Intel started to do it.
06:18:10 So, that the possibility, number one, and the possibility number two is that won't be process, you know, creates a Docker images from them quotable and pushes it to own up.
06:18:22 So that's another possibility.
06:18:26 And the third possibility is t tempo similar to the way own app is treating boreal, that is copy and coding bonus repositories and make any modifications by community.
06:18:35 So there is a third option.
06:18:41 And the fourth option is that, you know, leave deployment admin stuff on after the demo separately and kind of bring it up before one app is brought up so basically you're letting deployment administrators to use them for him charts that are there in
06:18:52 open a simple repositories to bring up tempo first, and then bring the phone up later on the same cluster. And, you know, that's what that's another option.
06:19:04 So yeah, those are the four options we a little. I could think of. And the same is presented to the next foundation.
06:19:14 So, that is our preferences number one. That's what, you know, that's also kind of indicated that would be the most
06:19:27 easiest thing for everybody. That's what it's all about. So, you can see the number one.
06:19:33 So, anyway, that's my that's my last slide. So, With that, I don't want to sit additional approach.
06:19:42 And then based on that, you know, we can move forward on how to go about how to go about this implication.
06:19:54 So stop here and then he.
06:19:58 Yeah, thanks. Renew for the presentation very enlightening.
06:20:03 One question regarding option one. Can you say a few words about the governance model of em co under openness, I mean, assuming that we will consume them go this way.
06:20:16 I'm sure there will be requirements or changes or features so can you describe how you see that process and how can open up community members get involved in, in the direction of em core functionality of them can contribute to me.
06:20:36 Yeah.
06:20:37 Let me, let me tell you what.
06:20:40 Openness governing is that, you know, but it's always
06:20:47 the there's a tight collaboration is always possible, based on you know based on the request which, when our community can provide to Intel product management, openness product management.
06:20:59 The current term openness model is that, you know, we have this GitHub repository in public repository of openness, employees part of that
06:21:16 debate and. and the way Intel processes are basically, is that
06:21:26 anything that is actually going into Intel specific the GitHub repositories. First, it has to go to our security lifecycle approvals.
06:21:40 Within Intel.
06:21:43 Right. That is, they go through, and they go through the, you know, security scanning for scanning, and then they do penetration testing, and many more.
06:21:59 Before we could make the court public right so because of that openness. At this time, decided to to publish the new code
06:22:10 to a new release coordinator to openness, public repositories once in three months. Right, so it's kind of a release cadence is Munson famous.
06:22:21 OK,
06:22:23 So now, now the question is that, I mean, suddenly, openness, you know, community openness community in general would like to ensure that it is useful for for the industry in general.
06:22:38 So it does provide, you know, abilities for people to create pull requests on on the GitHub repository.
06:22:48 And then, and also issue requests can be can be added to openness them code repository.
06:22:58 And then, within Intel the team basically verifies.
06:23:03 And then, you know, the integrity of the pull request and, or any bug fixes and the bug fixes very critical.
06:23:10 Then it will make a exception and then push the new version.
06:23:15 But if it is not critical that can be made that can be.
06:23:22 It will be a bit which will come in the next release cadence, I guess. So, that is the current model in an openness today.
06:23:34 But that said, that said what happened, what happens is that at least on the internal repositories where we are, continue to developers continue to develop the code, or enhancements.
06:23:45 Those.
06:23:47 We do provide access to some specific, you know, on selective basis, access to internet repositories also.
06:23:58 But, but that is very selective in nature.
06:24:01 So, Yeah, that's the model currently that openness is following the plan.
06:24:10 And so I'm hearing that, to make it for a change to make its way to the Docker Hub image it has to go through the internal scrutiny, Intel, which is kind of I don't know I let other community members chime in, but sounds a bit, limiting from the owner
06:24:29 perspective. So perhaps we. And again, I'll let others reflect on that but it sounds like a bit restrictive and gives us little control over the code, maybe it's good enough, I don't know.
06:24:46 But, again, I'll shut up and let others speak their mind.
06:24:52 And yet, I guess if it's a similar third party like Maria DB Mongo DB, I'm not sure that own app developers make a lot of contributions to those types of components so the upstream development model maybe isn't so important.
06:25:05 I guess.
06:25:08 How much would own up sort of use cases be reliant on downstream or upstream or whatever stream changes to uncle, that that would drive that need for that much more tight integration or a much more flexible ability to propose updates.
06:25:26 That's not clear to me how that would work.
06:25:32 Yeah.
06:25:34 I see that the big difference between Maria de integration you know nap and mq because I'm good today is from openness but openness either Rufino new,
06:25:47 new stuff with a few developers mainly from Intel.
06:25:52 So, my add something that is well known for years, we know that there will be a job also has been talked about, meaning that we are, we know that it's a quite a life project, and it should be the same in the near future like OpenStack of Genesis and era.
06:26:11 We don't really have.
06:26:14 We aren't really sure about that because if I look at for example, a digital footprint and Co.
06:26:21 I see that the only one permit.
06:26:23 Two months ago.
06:26:24 And that's what.
06:26:27 Since then, guys, no commute so maybe that is work during Intel but we don't we don't really offend me many years and see that is done internally and then push it away, in a way, in a way, that, that means that we will put in our critical path because
06:26:45 we all know that she's right on the CNS some things that he's really, and not mature, not, not well used by by a lot of different projects that will be on the earth.
06:26:55 Even if. Very good. Good.
06:27:25 already. When we have a maintenance project, take a nap. We have a lot of scrubbers just next to us in an ear we also add the external dependencies to something that we have a lot less control that to control that we try to win a project, so I'm not sure
06:27:44 to, to see the benefit for our community to use him good to be honest.
06:27:57 No, that would find site I don't have any answer for that so I kind of understand where you're coming from similar, but you know what that's the limitation we have this time is I have, I don't have control over that aspect.
06:28:17 Yeah, but I see two aspects here one is whether there's functional benefit in using mq and I think, few people like Lukash and maybe say shoe had a chance to review what's there and did see some benefit.
06:28:32 And then there is a shoe we just discussed of our ability to affect the upstream which is a concern. So I see that as two different things. So, if there is benefiting and go for now, let's try to find a way to use it and not just avoid it, because of
06:28:48 the kind of restrictive upstream policy.
06:28:58 Well, again, I see the point of having the benefits of using it, but I'm not sure that the benefits are more than the disadvantages are also threat that we will have in the future.
06:29:29 With that, again, maybe I'm missing out on the right.
06:29:20 Now, I have just to go to the mq and openness and I found the GitHub repository, there is no good.
06:29:27 That has been approved seen students in for new projects, usually that's where there's a lot of good answers.
06:29:36 So maybe I'm not looking at the right placement.
06:29:38 But she's today.
06:29:42 Really, what we want to use something where we are not sure. So, yeah, we could talk to you since he is doing wrong, which is actually what has been done with when employed in Sedona, and Sylvan on that on that aspect, right, that isn't about you don't
06:29:58 see changes on a weekly basis, there is that as I mentioned, in an interview we have internal process of pushing the code, it has to go through a set of internal processes from security scanning perspective and and all that stuff.
06:30:15 That's where you come in. We started only from concrete for one words that is December. That's first time we basically push the code.
06:30:23 And then it will be pushing the code again in March. Right, that's the reason you don't see the changes.
06:30:29 But if you. But if nobody else has had access to our internal repository. But otherwise, you do see that.
06:30:37 Yeah, that's the that's possible you don't see that, you know, get up to speed.
06:30:43 But I have another question why you decided to create this new project, not on the elephant on board also because I think it would be.
06:30:57 It's a better issue of this project on doesn't have an umbrella because it will be aggressive for was on that committee to better guarantees of features that we, we can, we can better work together.
06:31:11 You consider this disruption.
06:31:18 You know, there was a discussion about the last year, I don't know, I mean, I was not closely involved in that decision.
06:31:30 But that is an option.
06:31:34 I need to, I need to take it, take it to internal management.
06:31:39 But that was.
06:31:41 That's one option. Maybe, maybe I should put that as an option, what you're saying is that why don't you create it as a separate elephant project.
06:31:50 And then to the development phase, right.
06:31:55 So, yeah, I don't have low.
06:31:58 Yeah, that's it that's about that's about one more possibility we can put it here. But I don't know whether it is, it will be accepted by Intel, because the decision to put into up in a Simcoe was taken very differently.
06:32:11 So, things would be different.
06:32:15 But that's an option. Yeah, that's not
06:32:29 Sorry I didn't, if other people have questions I'll still remain quiet. I was just going to share an observation.
06:32:24 I do, I do have a question, there's a shocker so socially.
06:32:29 I joined a little bit late so I'm not sure if he addressed the, the topic, or the question that I'm going to or the comment that I'm about to make, but it would seem to me that we really identify, we need to identify the functionality gaps that we have
06:32:47 within the platform that and co would address.
06:32:54 Right. So if we crisply identify where the gaps are, and also identify the benefits in using em Co.
06:33:04 I think all the other.
06:33:06 I don't want to call them procedural but the operational issues associated with the info may be worked out, you know as we start using, or if we decide to use the product.
06:33:19 I think that they, they will come as we start using the product but the key at least for me and I'm speaking from the architectural perspective, what is the gap or what are the gaps that we see in the platform today.
06:33:34 And why do we think that em co would address these gaps in such a way that no other product, or no other components would.
06:33:45 Okay. So, a shocker I did talk about very very high level here.
06:33:52 You know, this is what we have in multi cloud Kate is liking.
06:33:57 And this is what is there an openness, info.
06:34:01 So, of course a lot more details behind this.
06:34:08 And, you know, I think I kind of touched upon you know some of the some of the features that is that update and woken a SIM card out.
06:34:20 Okay.
06:34:21 You know, whether it is for somebody in a network slicing orchestrators on top of this, you know, but it should work the automation and also to support distributed computing.
06:34:34 Across Ages, right. Those are some other features
06:34:42 about basically it didn't work in this moment is simple. So yep so that keeping that. I think there is an understanding that there is some technical metric to have the integration.
06:34:53 Using organism cool.
06:34:56 Yeah, now that I think the whole discussion about operations, how do we basically take it forward.
06:35:02 So, an enemy by opening Simcoe is Apache to license space. So, it is possible to do this, or it is possible to create a new project. Keeping openness I'm curious the base like that's it is open source Apache to license project.
06:35:23 Yeah, but I don't think it's a good practice to have some folks are so we need to do it for Kenner directing freelancer, and cool. So,
06:35:36 I think. Yeah.
06:35:42 But we need yes to to to a better country dance on the way you manage record on to open it today.
06:35:52 I don't think we have,
06:35:56 let's say, or the information to be to be very convenient.
06:36:03 Joining from the bop bop
06:36:09 bop can get more information about our governments and other stuff but it's like popped in joined gray.
06:36:16 I don't see.
06:36:18 I don't know if you can hear me.
06:36:20 Yes, yes can you.
06:36:23 I want to be sure that all the TSA team members and others have pays all the question before so to speak.
06:36:30 So any other question because at one point we need to help us to move to the other topics which was the the major item for today.
06:36:41 Everybody raised.
06:36:43 Before I wrap up, and provide some guidelines.
06:36:48 Yeah, I was Catherine if you don't mind, I was just going to say, you know, one of the things you know not being an inept TASC member obviously but you know sort of just looking at at this, you know, I think that, you know, there's an important capability.
06:37:05 Here, that is sort of the addressing Kubernetes space clouds, you know, sort of, you know as a one multi cloud but also a particularly important you know cloud looking ahead from cloud native, you know for, you know, because from that perspective, it
06:37:26 feels as though this has, you know, important for own apps future direction, but I think that there are some, you know, rather legitimate governance concerns, you know, being raised in terms of such an important strategic dependency, you know on something
06:37:44 that doesn't have a truly open, you know governance model and I think that, you know, part of maybe the the going ahead discussion, you know should be probably thinking about me I know there's lots of thought going on for cloud native and own app, but
06:38:03 that should be some sort of around those lines as well right if this is a functionality. And there are concerns about governance Yeah, what are some of the other, you know, possible options for own app and you sort of what are the resources behind that,
06:38:21 as well. Not to say that there's you know a right or wrong decision that I'm pushing here but that probably thinking through some of those things, you know, is a bit of a challenge but you know an important to sort of thought process for the community
06:38:36 NTSC here is definitely, making it the editor so that's why I wanted to be sure that all the Tuesday because they were older behave, the divorce before I tried to wrap up on this topic.
06:38:56 I was on the classmate of mine. Sorry I was muted I was trying to speak in between but it was double muted.
06:39:03 I mean, look, I should have been evaluating earnings videos mention it and we also know as a part of to see them task force me into cash I've been evaluating different options for having an end to end orchestration that includes the NFP enough and I would
06:39:14 say x and FX enough you know nap is our main goal.
06:39:21 So, Mo from that perspective again I'm talking on the functional here I'm only talking about technical stuff I know there's a lot of governance thing we should be taken care and part three.
06:39:26 As pointed by Jason the comment also said that said, we required to actually take care it but I want to just pitch in with one particular thing that there is a need of right now for us to actually have a scene of orchestration also inside an app.
06:39:38 We either build from top to bottom up approach from scratch or we take something which is already built to some extent and try to integrate that set point which we will discuss on.
06:39:46 So from that perspective, surely be required to have the capabilities of this functionality to be their own app because I'm not sure it's not talking from an app perspective, I'm also part of other communities around the globe, like, I'm also part of
06:40:00 I'm also part of Mac I'm also part of the other continents parties which actually going on like, like for example I cry now and on so there is a lot of need for community space orchestration, and anything on that.
06:40:11 I mean anything which will actually help to have that functional area to nap is a great Welcome to us, and employs a good fit from that point of it. Okay.
06:40:21 Again, I would not go into the communist point because I think we all agree that we have to find some solution for having a truce between both these things together, but one thing is for sure that we require that functionality.
06:40:34 Otherwise, we may fall back I mean we may, we may not be able to catch up the current requirements of operators.
06:40:45 Thank you, Thank you for the additional clarification.
06:40:49 Is there anybody else who wants to provide feedback. Before I conclude and provide the next step.
06:40:56 Is there a couple of comments in the chat from Jason and Karen.
06:41:02 Yep, I saw them avoid anything else want to make sure that we address all the concerns and questions before we wrap up.
06:41:16 Alright, so I think we need to go back to our processes and our governance right.
06:41:23 We are in the situation today because we didn't read this Bible concern was not really was popping up, because it was discovering the system situation, I mean a lot of people were not aware of what was going on, and stuff probably to make some assumptions.
06:41:42 The problem, the causes that we have been established with you have community it's always when there is a need a gap whatever it is to go back to our forums and subcommittees, which is the architecture committees and the requirement committee to assess
06:41:59 if indeed a new, a new software, a new use case and you will see a new feature.
06:42:08 My add value to the owner community.
06:42:12 So, I think that in order to have a complete alignment, and there are a lot of good positive feedback that could play definitively good whole, including it.
06:42:26 Let's, indeed, go through a process and confirm this positive feedback and assess it from the from away.
06:42:33 We also need to be cautious, and that's why you've shown that on the, on the slide, we probably need to add item five, which is the suggestion from a week to maybe go back to intern management and explore the fact that ringing as an elephant, it will
06:42:59 remove a lot of fears concern.
06:42:54 Having a dependency that we don't control, because nobody likes to lose control and that's also another problem we are facing together.
06:43:04 So, action item one.
06:43:08 We want the community a little bit more patient. Go to the process, asking the people who believe there is a use case over gap that we can fill up set up a meeting with architecture team.
06:43:23 And also if there is a use case, discuss this use case completely with the requirements it committee. Okay, so architecture. If we are missing a piece that we cannot fill up what we have today.
06:43:35 Go to the architecture, if we have the tickling the book that indeed, it will be a must have been a to complement what we are trying to accomplish with cloud native, we define a concrete use case, which will be visible.
06:43:49 I do have the PLC either or use case we want to implement as possible we stumble.
06:43:56 Again, if the moon committee believe there is a strong case and owner is in 95 to lead these use case component one perspective, from development integration with you and then we pass all the steps.
06:44:13 And that's what already scheduled for this is trying to go faster with new requirements, when you ID.
06:44:20 So we spend less time in the backlog, and we need to have of course commitment from the company to support the use case not common architecture, not from an IT perspective.
06:44:32 But during the development cycles, doing the testing cycle. And later on, to provide amendments. Okay.
06:44:47 Looking at the option again, based on the experience we had with Open Daylight.
06:44:46 We no more really doing what it is Express here on the slide, what we get from an Open Daylight is something like that target bullet point so we understand that was not the right way to follow the code in order for different reasons.
06:45:01 One, we were beaten on the hood because I really love of security subcommittee. Because Open Daylight was increasing the concern from a security licensing issue.
06:45:14 When we were trying to integrate it, you know, own app component. So I do not recommend the initial Open Daylight fishing.
06:45:22 Because if we start to be distributing anything about mq under the own umbrella, we become responsible of the lack of non functional requirement of the lack of advocate things will have unity right and i think that's also a concern that some of you try
06:45:41 to bring the level of control, why because we cannot collect ourselves.
06:45:45 So I item three I don't think we need to go that way they don't have experience in Open Daylight, we should more follow the the focus of item one I think item one might be the next 60, in the sense that we consider me as a dependency on a committee is
06:46:03 not distributing and go, and it can be used from some use case, if we realized that this use case, have no more value because mq is failing or whatever, we can always remove a use case, we don't need to sit down, you're not, because one use case does
06:46:21 not work.
06:46:24 work. And I have to say the option for multiple sure what it means. So, again, more to come. I would say, to recap the step one penny. Firstly, thank you so much to give us all the story because a lot of us.
06:46:38 And the last week we didn't know exactly what what's up and with all our focus we heard about it, it is a fee and we didn't know what happened to thank you so much to the story by go and present it to the to the TSP.
06:46:47 The one I will ask you, can you challenge once more your management's and see if there is no agreement because you are a great elephant computer, not only and you're not but auto community to see there is no really no way to bring it in, into elephant.
06:47:09 Then I will ask to the people who strongly believe it's important for cloud native q&a to take the leadership, go back to shaker, and present.
06:47:23 Oh, it will fit into the own app architecture. Right, how we can compensate the gap that we don't have.
06:47:27 And then the same people, for sure because you are convinced there's something to do bring other company go to the requirements subcommittee and build the case.
06:47:37 So we can have finally officially the Emperor, have not integrated of part of Istanbul.
06:47:46 Without doing the governance process. We don't know at this stage, but there are a lot of good insight and, but at the same time we need to feel the concern.
06:47:56 So that's my conclusion and suggestion, how we can move forward together on this topic.
06:48:02 Is there any agreement disagreement, based on what I've just said.
06:48:09 I think it's a good suggestion let's just try to do things in parallel. So not wait until the architecture analysis and requirement analysis, but work on solving the governance issue right away.
06:48:24 Because I'm sensing that the conclusion from this analysis will be that we want to have em co as part of owner, also by the way one thing we didn't mention is employee successfully playing a part in the elephant cloud native 5g demo, which kind of proves
06:48:42 that usability, but that's another thing.
06:48:44 So my again My point is, let's try to do both at the same time, and work on the governance issue,
06:48:53 be visible, because I think we are suffering old to the unknown. Because a lot of things I've been doing.
06:49:02 We've all been exposed until we talk today. So I really encourage you bring your ID, continue to add innovation. Explore order the name that just the network domain associated to own up.
06:49:16 We are the only thing we ask you to all do, is to be visible and follow the government's that we have tried to establish or the way we might miss excellent opportunity.
06:49:31 Okay.
06:49:32 Good. If there's any additional feedback Let's kick off this next action items invalid have to just be Bye, honey.
06:49:44 And I get skinny.
06:49:53 Just Just
06:49:50 get guessing.
06:49:53 Still sorry but what is the conclusion because I'm not sure to to capture on the final decision.
06:50:03 Kill me there is no decision. I think we need to go to the next level of detail, which is one.
06:50:08 How we filling the gap that the platform cannot really done by itself today.
06:50:14 And we also
06:50:17 analyze what type of use case who we support there so much as component of use case that we acquired this component.
06:50:26 We also consider your feedback about maybe going back to Indian management to see if we can have mq under the elephant umbrella, because it will help the look.
06:50:38 In case of concern about the code later on.
06:50:43 coupon Li Mo is not fast overview of this condition, and that was not the recommendation on the stage, because, again, we might be able to this continuing this continue some use case, using mq we though having it on the owner of this position.
06:51:03 So we don't impact own app itself is what I mean. So, if this use case that people really believe it's really key will not work one day.
06:51:12 It doesn't mean it's, it's, damaging completely own up, right, we just, they create this use case like we did orders. Right. But we are not distributing and adults.
06:51:26 It's, there is no undercard willingness from Intel anyway.
06:51:41 To be back to own up, the only option it's may be potentially to be back under the LFNH.
06:51:39 As an example, I don't know. Ok. So the conclusion is really confirm we have a gap in notify clearly the use case so we have visibility in the community, and plan them for a stumble.
06:51:51 And if there is really a one day an issue with the code.
06:51:54 It's not the code with the Docker image the container.
06:51:58 We can always click it it, the use case that people can be believed it would have value for cosmetic journey.
06:52:30 I hope I've been clean or otherwise, let me know. And I can maybe type again, something different I agree with your approach. Did you, did you really mean use case, or, or did you mean a proof of concept of Park.
06:52:35 Instead
06:52:30 of concept you do is nice, but I think we have already a proof of concept, ongoing based on the feedback provided by honey.
06:52:36 There is a five equals negative use cases some others already some companies working on a PC.
06:52:43 I suggest that if this QC is demonstrated as a key for good not to do my own activity to work with you. Talk with align chemo and to make it this use case officials as part of the symbols.
06:53:01 Align chemo and to make it this use case officials as part of the symbol. Right. They need also invited to have the ticking the box from an architectural perspective.
06:53:10 I need one day to address the problem of cinema is you can order the cool Banco is not as good as it should. we can always duplicated this use case.
06:53:27 Yeah, but if I know a lot of already inside a project like s, for example, that has been created for wide in it or not, but we still have to use it because every CD state to it.
06:53:41 So I'm pretty sure that if you add me in a, in an opinion we're on reserve, then that will be at because I'm pretty sure it's a good card that that and.
06:53:55 And so people we want to use it and you will not, you won't be able to differentiate the alpha of your use cases in marketing, as a marketing point of view, that's for sure.
06:54:04 So what, what do we are we are we are to creation like f were super tries to make it work Rufino that to get rid of it.
06:54:17 Maybe when they are under there, but at the end of the day, if we are using it putting this kind of Skirda in a way on the inside, an owner clearly.
06:54:29 You will asked him to face the depreciation of it, when in 10 will decide that yeah and co was good but no they want to move to new crew, I don't know what to see with new code.
06:54:43 And that's what and, and we will be stuck like we are today with as like we are today with with other project that afternoon, and we need, we asked her to look into the code and so on.
06:54:57 That's just a few people and b2b as the one of the guys looking into it. It's not easy to walk in on this kind of still project and, but we cannot duplicate.
06:55:09 And, or maybe we will need to remove all the use cases for money because all of them will use them in a way on so much, I don't care. I'm a kiss member So, but the key, and don't be clear on that and be aware that if in one year.
06:55:27 We see that the same way of working on mq, and that instead is going to sit down for any reason you would be one and you would have to face the consequences and.
06:55:46 appreciate your feedback. That's something we need to understand from the architecture for embedded will be ankle.
06:55:52 It is to that, as is was from an authentication, authorization perspective, it can be off and on.
06:56:02 And it's also related to the fact if people want to use it or not, they were some QC to replace it.
06:56:08 And there, they've been not so much interest by the community to to maintain it.
06:56:27 Not to maintain it, but to continue to build on top of that, so we need to assess employees or something which will be just embedded in multi cloud, or if it will be an acquirer, like it was the case of a.
06:56:29 Right. And again, the as story I would consider that we discuss maybe when I would put prison the project management states.
06:56:37 So, we might be able to address your concern. Okay, but to avoid, and it's good that you bring that to a vote and learn from the lesson of a up and open projects.
06:56:49 Let's be more cautious now, and I rely on checker to do these assessments.
06:57:00 Just to address the Simmons concerns right. Normally, this anonymous nominal practice in any open source projects to go with some kind of a, what they call core rendering right so if whatever reason.
06:57:14 You know the open source project, you know, removes that repositories or anything else that depend on the product of that depends on that should not should not have impact right much impact at least.
06:57:29 So that's why they will be the goal rendering so that's the process you need to follow, just to ensure that, you know, the own app itself for, you know, one episode continues to work even tomorrow, as you mentioned still one of our water what is an Intel
06:57:46 decides to remove that GitHub repository. So, that's a, that's a normal concern for any open source projects that are dependent on each other.
06:57:54 So you need to go with the coven during or any other mechanism
06:57:59 is, this is Kenny so I think one of the key things there is typically in an openly govern project, you wouldn't see a repository, public repository being removed.
06:58:19 Yeah, that's so, so I don't know if it was just the choice of words there
06:58:28 may not have been what you meant but that raised they've been rather significant line.
06:58:37 Yeah, get getting what I'm saying is that this is a valid concern for any open source of an even today, given open source project or even commercial project that depend on so many open source projects nowadays.
06:58:51 So the approach people follow.
06:58:55 Is that call with some kind of a rendering concept and language at least.
06:58:59 So very, you know, kind of, it creates a copy. But it is not a lot to copy but it creates a copy just to ensure that you know anything happens on the, on the dependent project, you know, it works so your father doesn't get impacted so I'm just giving
06:59:21 Kind of a solution.
06:59:22 But, but I don't think what I don't think you know, Intel or anybody thinking of moving at any point of time so
06:59:35 I seems that there's just even just one word answer.
06:59:41 We need to be cautious. If we rely on a solution that, that seems to be to be quite good to answer some, some needs for a dream but I think we need to have more confidence on so where your project is really open.
07:00:00 And because, as you may know, it's not because we decided to project is a as a new potentials license governance is really open so I think he's the key points, we want to, to raise them on to share with the community.
07:00:25 But I think, let's, let's take maybe some time to see our seats are rocking on video.
07:00:29 As it properly by Katrina year, and as appointing in a few months to consign them.
07:00:39 Okay. So, from this discussion.
07:00:42 Catherine, if you could send one brief in on what what are the action items are what are the, what is a process.
07:00:51 That would be great so that we don't have any confusion on understanding from.
07:00:55 Thank you.
07:00:57 Definitely I was just trying to type in the wiki some next next step. I'm not sure was finished and can we speak but I'm just cautious that we, we need a little bit of objective of today but it was extremely key when I see all your engagement.
07:01:12 It's nice to see.
07:01:13 It was very key that we also focus on em co so I hope people are not to upset, we didn't set this up today.
07:01:22 So, I'm writing the next step in the wiki, and maybe before we end up the call you can have a look or come back later if I miss something but I'm documenting the different steps which is one.
07:01:38 You go, I quickly get one gu skin you go to your management to see mo could be fast I believe of LFH community to and everything can happen in time to Schechter to sit down with yourself, I consider yourself as a vehicle non static if you don't mind,
07:01:58 to highlight the adding value from an architectural perspective, right and what I both got, we are trying to fill up, especially considering the work mentioned by Edra honey and BonBon about the size you know, and then we need identical to use case owner
07:02:17 owner. They believe in em CO, you want to do something in uncle. So, build a use, be the use case be look the feature from definition perspective and meet Allah table, while we present it on a requirement to prepare you stumble.
07:02:36 Okay, this understanding of the pure see which is ongoing. Alright, so the three main items, I think we need to go back. Ok.
07:02:49 And then from a distribution perspective.
07:02:53 I believe that this, depending on how things go we probably would go with an import not distributed a standalone app but that would be the next step, let's at least a completed prefer step to determine what will be the type of consumer consumption.
07:03:11 We will continue for ankle.
07:03:15 If it is critical to own up. Okay, I will also try that as well.
07:03:19 Thank you, and Kenny.
07:03:23 You can pick up the second topic.
07:03:36 Thank you.
07:03:42 Okay, let's see, I'm trying
07:03:47 the slideshow let's see if it does the right screen.
07:04:00 It does.
07:04:13 Does
07:04:13 center view.
07:04:17 Okay. Well, it's not sharing my right spring and I'm not going to spend time monkeying around with it will start the slideshow. And just make this big.
07:04:27 Okay, so we ordered originally going to discuss this at the event.
07:04:45 So, we're doing it here today.
07:04:50 I'm kind of glad that it got delayed because I went through and looked at slides that I had prepared.
07:04:56 This morning, and went through a bunch of them away.
07:05:00 Because I thought I was.
07:05:03 Maybe not focusing on the right thing so I little a few changes and here we are
07:05:12 rich history.
07:05:14 I'm sure most of us know this.
07:05:16 When the project was launched.
07:05:19 Being a member of the TLC was a membership entitlement for Platinum members.
07:05:26 And that was guaranteed for the first 12 months of the own app project.
07:05:32 But before that 12 months was up, and December the own app board voted to join Lsn so in January.
07:05:40 The project was restructured the own app board was dissolved.
07:05:45 Charter was changed, which put the TASC in charge of the own app project to make sure that there was some continuity leadership continuity there.
07:06:00 The original Platinum member entitlement was extended from June of 2018.
07:06:10 In July, then this hybrid model was adopted that reserved seats for the original Platinum carriers, but it did so by name, remaining 92 electives open and that's the point where we establish the package community member.
07:06:34 Since 2018, there's a level of Community Trust that has greatly improve. Collaboration is also improved a great deal.
07:06:46 And the TMC have been working towards in your community focus, rather than a more internally.
07:06:54 An internal focus.
07:06:57 And I think one of the key things is they don't have demonstrated maybe the leadership, not just within our own project but beyond our own borders, which I think is fabulous so
07:07:10 folks are going to have questions about what it means to make these kind of updates updates to the charter highly unlikely.
07:07:18 What will we be talking about here would be the technical community document. And for that, mainly in section for.
07:07:27 In order to make changes to the community documents.
07:07:32 You can see the text there.
07:07:35 The series manager which is in the third bullet. Third sub bullet.
07:07:40 That would be somebody from the Linux Foundation's
07:07:47 legal counsel.
07:07:48 That would be looking those over to do it.
07:07:53 I suggest suggestion is that we look at just getting some agreement on big items today. Any other closing, forming a work group, or something to work on the actual wording and detail.
07:08:09 So
07:08:12 operational complexity and process complexity and quickly smother.
07:08:22 Both. Both speed and common sense decision made. So here I've got illustrated the standard Rock Paper Scissors game, which has gone through you know some evolution to the point where it's just absolutely ridiculous.
07:08:39 You need a basically a flowchart to figure out who would win where depends depending on what this was so let's just look at what changes would benefit the only up the most.
07:08:56 So TASC my questions for you are what are your priorities reserved seats, the number of members on the PFC.
07:09:05 The company diversity on the TLC beloved what contribution on the TLC whether there's a desire to main carrier vendor parity, which was a big priority back in 2018.
07:09:19 Whether attendance is in something, or whether you're focused on something completely different.
07:09:24 So, that's the extent of the materials that I have, I think at this point I'm just going to leave this slide up, and we can talk about what the
07:09:39 what the priorities that you guys would like to see addressed here.
07:09:50 And I took off the slide that I'm
07:09:58 so does the TLC want to preserve reserved seats.
07:10:10 Can anyone hear me.
07:10:17 Can Yeah, thank you. Kenny I think that reserved seat is not an independent question the reserved seat we're supposed to help with the diversity, and also with maintaining carrier and vendor parity so I think it's a bit challenging to discuss each bullet
07:10:30 points separately.
07:10:34 Okay, that's her.
07:10:37 I mean you're asking a good question of what are our priorities, and I have my personal opinion, but we need to somehow gather all the different opinions and then make a decision and read.
07:10:58 I could have the waveform, you know I've been trying to convert by emails, but I guess that was not so successful so we're having this meeting cure so you know one way would be to kind of express our priority and priorities.
07:11:11 Can you Is this what you expect us to do now to express our priorities or our vision.
07:11:20 us to do now to express our priorities or our vision. Yes, what is what is your vision, what are what are what are your priorities. What.
07:11:27 So let's start with.
07:11:41 Let's start. That, for me, and I think that the highest priority is the engagement of as many companies as possible in the community. And that came as a significantly higher priority than you know limiting the number of seats all as equations which were
07:11:50 were discussed you know when because that email discussion and and and beyond that even I think that, you know, I would even say that each participant in company I know this is not impractical at the point where we stand right now.
07:12:21 You know deserves a tasty set seat because from the company perspective, you know, eventually, you know, our companies we are not individual contributors right, and from the company perspective, I think that for investment, it is doing in the open source
07:12:23 community expects to actually have an influence position on decisions, and let's say the TC Steve is perceived as such a position, you know, I know those arguments that people would say you know government board, then, is a place to influence but I know
07:12:37 Frankly speaking, I think that video case is the TC This is where the influence really is a scope. This is where we influence you know approach direction this is very influenced by the way what to approve or not approve for each one of the releases so
07:12:52 I think the TC is the place. So, those are things which are guiding me, right, and then, you know, speaking then have the number of seats, and I would definitely not reduce it.
07:13:06 Speaking of the number of seats per company since, again we will not increase it the search for the fortunate practically speaking excellent their proposals for to reduce instead of increasing.
07:13:18 I do believe that we should proceed with what we had before, that we have a maximum of one seat per company.
07:13:26 And last point, you know, speaking of service providers reserved seats, I do not have a strong position on that. From that perspective, you know, and this is something that I think we need to hear from service providers, and whether they could affect
07:13:46 more direction from here.
07:13:50 Or, for instance, they also have that view he, where they can influence on the directions, because you know, I would say that those who participate, and you know, and in the community, that's fine, of course, but they do not meet reserve, that would be
07:14:10 you know as everyone else important vendors.
07:14:11 There are several who do not participate that much in the community activities. But then again, you know, if we get the feedback that would influence their company's direction on on up and on up adoption, then you know 100%, I am for keeping the resources,
07:14:28 because, as I said, the highest priority, in my view, is to keep an increase the size of the community and influencing companies, and to keep an increase the number of service providers deploying on, that's the highest priority and everything else should
07:14:45 be taken, you know, from them. So that's, that's my
07:14:52 song so many diverse cities and company influences is your top.
07:14:58 Sorry. What did you say company diversity and company influence is or
07:15:06 as many companies representative.
07:15:10 Otherwise, if we have more than a single seat that again would influence the overall number of companies, being a part of GC and this is something I would want to avoid right for all i said before.
07:15:30 So I'll chime in.
07:15:31 Because I mean Allah makes a good point about company diversity, leading to overall.
07:15:38 You know, potentially stronger community health. The one thing though that I would put in front of that would be level of contribution because I think that the TASC is best equipped to make good decisions about the technical direction of the project if
07:15:53 the members are involved more in the day to day out, you know, operations and development of an app so I would put level of contribution above company diversity but if there's a way to sort of balance those that would be something I'd be in favor of
07:16:16 maybe we're not talking about the same thing but how do you Jason How do you interpret level of contribution is a level of contribution of the specific TC member level of contribution of the company.
07:16:29 You represent yeah I mean I was thinking more than the TLC member.
07:16:33 And so I think, you know, with the possibility that you know you might have more than one member from a company if if they're sort of open seats and those people are, you know, very active contributors to it.
07:16:47 Now I would like to see a little more weight in the TASC to folks that are very active in the development.
07:16:55 But still, you know, trying to keep company diversity for overall Long, long term health and company participation so
07:17:06 yeah my comments are more individual. The TASC members contribution on the level of contribution piece.
07:17:25 I would guess if I combine what Jason said that the cops can go into recommendations for companies that the person who is running for TC position would be at least one of the most contributing companies members company members right i mean that each company
07:17:43 and then thinking about the most appropriate person to run, you know should consider that but this is not the most right I would say this is my interpretation of Jason.
07:17:55 So, based upon that what you just said all.
07:18:00 It sounds like your opinion is that the companies should pick their candidate.
07:18:06 You know I again, I don't think that I followed the most popular opinion for open source community, I just, I, you know, eventually, all of us are driven by companies interests right we are not participating in on up, you know in our free time on the
07:18:22 weekends. Eventually the driver company's interests here right and this is what drives me insane what I see. Right.
07:18:33 So yes, I would say that which is very very very much aligned with what company
07:18:41 honor, and what companies company is contributing, and what company expects to get in return. Right.
07:18:52 Because yes, we add those represent in our companies, this is how I see that,
07:18:59 hey, if I may, I would maybe jump in here and say that.
07:19:06 I think contribution of the company itself is is extremely important.
07:19:11 But I think it's sometimes so hard to measure exactly what would contribution means that I would, I would agree that companies should maybe pick their, their representative for from, from my part anyway, because you might have some people who are very
07:19:29 much involved inside the company, promoting own app and, for example, managing a team of several people who are involved a lot and then managing managing them without actually being the one pushing code or or delivering patches or writing documentation
07:19:47 on the confluence but still being very much aware of what's going on.
07:19:52 So, you know, sometimes the company might be in the best position to know.
07:19:57 Who, who, who should represent their interests of the TSP and get involved.
07:20:03 Yeah that's right and sometimes the top contributors may feel they're already overwhelmed with responsibilities so they're not eager to take it another one.
07:20:14 So it makes sense to share the responsibility within a certain company with some people being pts commuters, and others were presenting on subcommittees and with DSC.
07:20:29 And those who don't it because of an abstract for the tree structures right now by projects, basically right then by subcommittees, the real technical decisions actual had been taken them right because if you look on the history of the decisions we are
07:20:44 required to vote for in TC most, the best majority of those decisions are not really technical decisions.
07:20:51 So when I say technical It doesn't mean that you know, of course, people that engage in TC max know on the protection on the requirements on approach.
07:21:03 I'm talking about some specific of certain projects right, those are typically being discussed by the project themselves so those people who are, you know, the record contributors and commuters and so on.
07:21:15 In the project, who know all the technical details of the particular project, they influence from the project perspective, right.
07:21:23 We do not have those deep discussions here on the case to some other open source community perhaps because they don't have that number of projects and more technical decisions have been taken by the TC, not in our case, actually.
07:21:47 Other thoughts on the comments.
07:21:55 More than three or four of us chiming in here.
07:22:01 Yeah Well no, that's, that's one point but I wait, just people go, Oh no, I was just, I mean, that, that is the fourth or fifth voice as well so I guess but I kind of put it very shortly in chat with Olivia it was, how it was phrased I think that was
07:22:18 going to pretty much also my, my thinking.
07:22:23 It's a, it's a, it's a separate separate thing if if you're contributing code. And then, then you have people in different on a projects and then, Then there is.
07:22:36 It's a different angle to the whole question for the TNA those contributors may don't even necessarily want to want to be bothered with it with a TASC.
07:22:46 However, I think in in that list that we see now there. I think the attendance and level of contribution I think that's an interesting and important thing.
07:22:56 Nevertheless, also for the SEC but that would kind of hope that the people who are elected to the TSP would then be actively attending and actually actively contributing to the TASC so that there is a there is that angle as well so just being there is
07:23:16 not, it's not going to play on my, my list I think I would love to see people also being active on Tsu.
07:23:28 Aaron here I think I can meet their opinion from team on I'd also like to add I think isn't really as a new member of this year.
07:23:37 I think was covert as well maybe lack of Best of this communication has been a bit of an issue but perhaps we need some kind of a charger describing what the expectations are of a TASC members so that there's there isn't this ambiguity around.
07:23:50 You know I think everybody seems to have a slightly different perspective on what the responsibilities and so on of the role our
07:24:05 attitude perhaps is a time where you can bring bring us the topic which we discussed as a part of elephant recommend the next point of what he has he has to do.
07:24:13 So maybe they're slight also placing on rollers to distract to what he was talking about and what CNN and also Oliver said they will have contribute contribution and expectations I think that that slide makes much more sense here.
07:24:43 Got to just speaking, maybe unmute know.
07:24:46 I was on mute sorry.
07:24:48 Okay, um,
07:24:52 I would try to summarize what is my vision of a KFC group right so a CSP team for me it's a group of people coming from different horizons, having their own opinion, coming from different company, representing some holding company for sure but eager to
07:25:13 work together and to make things moving forward.
07:25:19 I have to say 100, I joined a DSC, two years ago.
07:25:25 That was not totally aligned with the vision that I described, but since them I can see that indeed. We have TLC members was active, not only having the liberal professor, contributing to the community, but acting themselves.
07:25:46 Trying also to bridge the community come together.
07:25:49 And I've never denied that for me. Don't sit and say nothing.
07:25:54 If you sit. Speak up, continued and be active on whatever your color whatever your company.
07:26:04 What escape we want to pull this is that we work together.
07:26:10 And it's not just follow the lead, but also expressed like you did on the tempo discussion.
07:26:17 So I'm not sure if I've been very clear, but to recap, it's really a group of people with the winning ways to work together. We have maybe become effective system bio companies, but at the end, we are reaching the same goals, and we put all your energy
07:26:35 to meet these goals together so that the we hope we can move forward with the industry and continue to bring value with our community.
07:26:47 Thanks Katrina so what one common comes to mind about that is, maybe as a TC we don't have enough opportunities to have discussion similar to the one we just had about them co which I agreed it was a good one and these are the types of discussions we
07:27:01 should have. I feel that many of the DC meetings are dedicated to sort of issue triage and release reviewing and with more releases per year we're going to spend probably more time doing that.
07:27:15 So I think we should find a way to separate maybe those two types of activities and leave enough time and enough platform for those important discussions, moving forward.
07:27:41 And Ranieri.
07:27:31 Yeah, absolutely.
07:27:32 That should be the whole indeed of the TSP. I think what we have been fixing was somehow, how we operate from an execution model.
07:27:42 Today I think we become extremely mature. We are still improving our service so he needs guidance, but from an execution.
07:27:49 There is not so much to do. For now we can unless the Nissan priorities we were discussing during the lesson which become tactic, we need to move from execution and move to the vision and the wolf.
07:28:02 I don't know if it was you meant, honey, but I totally agree.
07:28:07 Yeah, in general, yes but I'm still not as confident as you are. Tweet nail down. The streamlining of the process and I kind of feel we increase the overhead of handling the releases, but that's maybe just my observation.
07:28:29 Yeah, I was just going to chime in on this point because it. I mean I think speaking for myself I don't feel like I'm very qualified.
07:28:37 And I know I don't participate very much on the release management in the issue, you know, kind of triage types of discussions.
07:28:46 And so if that is more the focus of the TASC that's why I would say, you know, having folks that are more in the day to day operations of an app is important, but if the THC does shift towards more strategic type discussions and governance discussions
07:28:59 and those sorts of things, you know, then I think that does change, you know the the type of person that you would want them to TASC, so.
07:29:09 And I think the PSC need to shift to the salon mode, right, we have been some spending significant time to make to ensure the execution is right to deliver what we are committing from a religious perspective.
07:29:26 Now we, we have the possibility to, to indeed better the whole path and tactics and we did some progress with a task force with. There are so many things to explore and we never had the time I was grossly to secularism so that should be the, the force
07:29:44 of the CFC to the to others. Hope map techniques collaboration and thinking for what, what, based on what the industry wants to do.
07:29:58 Yeah, I agree that we should never mind that we should have some and techniques feedback.
07:30:08 Because we should not be or near the board, like committee.
07:30:21 We are at the bottom of the hour.
07:30:24 We're going to start losing people.
07:30:30 Jason suggested, I'm picking this up at the next UFC call.
07:30:35 The next call I believe is going to be focused on him three speaking about tactical and execution.
07:30:47 There you have it.
07:30:50 So do we want to,
07:30:54 We, we need some.
07:30:58 We need some agreement on what's going to happen with the election.
07:31:03 That doesn't need to be made right now.
07:31:06 But whether we, you know, set a date that this needs to be completed by or something like that so I can take that to an email thread was probably the best thing to do right now in my life.
07:31:24 But taking it on email said we should have some points right any I don't think we have any point to discuss on me.
07:31:33 Okay, so folks recommend as a next step.
07:31:37 I second Jason's thought to take it forward and next meeting to have some concrete outcome of it and then we can perhaps, then we can take it as shown on me.
07:31:51 We might need to see.
07:31:54 Think what we could do it sleeper quite in advance of kind of recap status with empty. So we can free up the rest of the agenda, just to continue this topic, and we would not have this any other topic.
07:32:11 You even some of them already on the calendar.
07:32:15 So try to prepare in advance, and please status.
07:32:26 Before you speak in waiting for that at once, preparation, the PTA meeting on Monday.
07:32:28 Yeah. Okay, so we bring this conversation to next week.
07:32:34 m three, then, is the ends up being purely a vote next week.
07:32:47 Okay.
07:33:22 Okay so moving discussion and next week we'll move on to other topics.
07:33:27 Other than the actual m three vote on Honolulu.